The Blurring Lines of Podcasting – 5 Notes from London

I just returned from my first Podcast Show London — an energized, impressively staged event that lived up to its growing reputation. It was vibrant, well-run, and full of thoughtful conversation in a venue that made it easy to connect, caffeinate, and keep the ideas flowing. Throughout the show, a few topics kept coming up. From our “State of Video Podcasting 2025” presentation with Jay Nachlis of Coleman Insights to nearly every panel and keynote, the dominant themes were video, convergence, and the ever-expanding reach of the “creator economy.”

Here are five key takeaways:

Podcast Convergence Is Real and Fast

That phrase, creator economy, got plenty of airtime. But even as it was being used, you could sense pushback. Podcasting is not just about creators anymore. It’s about building multi-platform content machines: podcasts, yes, but also newsletters, videos, books, social influence, and even live events. We’ve moved well past podcasting’s quaint beginnings.

The lines between media formats are converging and blurring fast. I sat on a panel alongside my friend Brett Spencer (Director of the Centre of Podcasting at City St Georges, University of London and an Executive Editor for BBC Local Radio) and others discussing the education of students entering the business. We debated how we're preparing the next generation of podcast professionals amid the industry’s rapid change. 

I visited City University of London’s journalism program, an impressive operation deeply aware that today’s students must be adept with video, audio, and platform-fluent from day one. I have also made significant changes to my Business of Podcasting class at NYU as so much consumption has shifted to video.

Podcast convergence isn’t just a shift in medium. It’s a shift in mindset from creation on forward.

YouTube Is Taking a Big Swing

Nowhere was the industry’s transformation more evident than in YouTube’s growing presence at Podcast Show London. A year ago, YouTube felt like a polite observer of the podcasting industry. Today, they’re in the thick of it. At Podcast Movement, On Air Fest in Brooklyn, and now in London, YouTube is not just attending. They’re hosting sessions, engaging in strategy conversations, listening, and even sharing some occasional data (share more, please…).

YouTube recently introduced a podcast chart, added podcasting to its primary navigation, and made it clear they are committed to becoming a home for podcasting, even if they’re also subtly reshaping what podcasting is. In one standout session hosted by YouTube, Goalhanger, one of the UK’s most successful podcast producers, revealed that 25% of their 63 million monthly downloads and views come from YouTube. That’s not a blip. That’s a significant signal.

The Push to Platform is Palpable

The pressure, or strategic push, towards being on more platforms was unmistakable. Steven Bartlett’s FlightStory rolled out a full-stack vision for creator-led media at the show that aims to knock down podcasting’s “artificial walls” and go after a $400 billion undefined opportunity. Their approach is to create everything: video, audio, social, newsletters, and books, and build a modern media flywheel.

Build once, distribute everywhere.

Former Spotify exec and entrepreneur Max Cutler, now heading Pave Studios, is headed down a similar path. Cutler was in high-recruit mode, indicating that Netflix, Hulu, and others are now not just interested in podcast content, they’re scouting it. The podcast industry is being courted. Max is one industry leader who is moving past the word podcasts. Max says Pave is focused on community and fandom, and he has already lined up an impressive list of primarily women-led shows. 

Moonshot Hits Are Hard

While all this change now feels predictable, some of it is eerily familiar. Omnichannel may be new to podcasting, but it is not new to media.

We’ve seen the “content factory” model before. It’s seductive in its ambition and often brutal in its results. In 2014, Disney made a $500 million bet on YouTube focused Maker Studios with a similar IP-everywhere focus and then quietly sunset it without any big hits. Timing is everything. BuzzFeed rode, then drove, the media zeitgeist until the buzz wore off and NBC Universal was out $400 million. Vice was hot but ended up filing for bankruptcy in 2023 before restructuring.

The bottom line, regardless of platform, hits ARE hard. It’s a theme we use often in our advisory work. If it were just as easy as lining up a bunch of shows, then network television wouldn’t have a 66% mortality rate season after season. Quality matters, synergy matters, and show flow matters.    

Whether you’re creating books, TV shows, music, or podcasts, there is no guaranteed formula for breakout success. Sure, you can build a flywheel, but if the content doesn’t resonate, you’re just spinning in place.

Pollyanna Ward of Flightstory at their Podcast Show London session

To their credit, FlightStory seems keenly aware of this. In conversations with its CEO Georgie Holt and CRO Christiana Brenton, both acknowledged that their approach won’t work for everyone. Despite making a compelling pitch to a packed house at the conference, they’re really targeting a select few creators that they believe can scale across platforms. FlightStory’s model includes investing directly in creators and guiding them through the transformation from podcast host to multi-platform media brand by developing content, building clickable moments, and tweaking algorithms, as they have done so successfully with the popular podcast The Diary of a CEO. I like their chances. 

It’s Time to Fix Podcast Measurement

One of the most encouraging sessions at Podcast Show London came from Dan Misener and the team at Bumper, who are trying to push the industry beyond its dependence on the misleading metric of downloads. Bumper is focused on people, playback, and time spent.

We’ve discussed the measurement crisis in podcasting before. Downloads don’t tell you who listened, for how long, or when. They tell you what got delivered, not what is consumed. Bumper’s push is timely and needed. Outdated measurement is holding the industry back. Better measurement will unlock new dollars. We’ll be talking more about this in the months ahead.

Parting Thoughts

At Podcast Show London you could feel the industry grappling with its future in real time. The excitement is genuine. So is the skepticism. Convergence is causing the industry to think about the business differently, but the truth is not every podcast should become a video series, and not every creator can be a full-on brand.

At the heart of many conversations is the power of the word podcast. For some, the word is a limiting label tied to an era of audio-first content. For others, it’s a powerful identity with deep brand equity. Walking away too quickly could mean giving up a term that still resonates deeply with audiences, platforms, and advertisers.

As podcasting continues to mature, the stakes are getting higher and the discussions sharper. Whether you’re a creator, publisher, or brand, these shifts are worth watching (and acting on). The question is, what does expansion look like for you?

Two notes:

Congrats to Amazon/Wondery for one of nicest and coolest party locations ever at a podcast gathering. The National Gallery was spectacular. And thanks to Sam Sethi for making it happen for a few of us.

It was great to meet many of our international “Thought Letter” subscribers at the show. Thank you for reading. We know that The Thought Letter is often passed within organizations. This is a free newsletter, so please sign up for your own copy here